PREDATOR BANKS KENYA

THIS ARTICLE IS FROM THE DAILY NATION -

Owning a bank account is costly affair for most Kenyans

Banks are businesses just like any other out to make a profit. Photo/FILE

Posted Wednesday, March 4 2009 at 14:56
Once beaten twice shy, or so Justus Ogwaro believes.

In an age when some Kenyans are talking about a cash-less economy, Mr Ogwaro does not even have a bank account.

“I do not have a bank account and simply reinvest in my business whatever little money I make,” he says as a matter of fact.

But the retail shop operator in Nairobi’s Mathare North estate, who simply distrusts banks, is not a relic of a lost civilisation. He is in numerous company.

If anything, he was a proud client of one of the country’s banks until a few years ago when he got the shock of his life. On checking his account, he found Sh4,000 in form of bank charges levied on “a few shillings” he had deposited.

“I could not believe that my money reduced instead of increasing after such a long period,” he says of what literally sent his money under the mattress.

Mr Ogwaro’s case highlights one of the common mistakes that most Kenyans commit whenever they are dealing with banks.

“Banks are businesses just like any other out to make a profit and any service they offer is likely to have a cost element in it,” warns Mr David Mworia, who is an investment manager with Prudential Capital Limited.

Once the Central Bank of Kenya incorporates the proposed use of the Annual Percentage Rate (APR) in the country’s banking industry, it will be easy for customers like Mr Ogwaro to tell the cheapest bank loan by looking at the interest rates advertised.

The APR is an all inclusive measure of the cost of credit that incorporates other fees on loans other than the interest rate, which banks currently advertise on the minimum lending rate but end up charging high fees that are normally not disclosed to the customers at the time of borrowing.

Before then, Mr Mworia’s advice that banks are profit-making businesses holds true.

In this regard, you must be wary of what is known as service charge because this is usually a monthly fee that is levied on your account irrespective of transaction is done or not.

For instance, according to the recently released CBK Survey on bank charges and lending rates until December 2008, it will cost you Sh440 to maintain a personal cheque account at Fina Bank.

But you will spend Sh2,757 and Sh1,930 to maintain Standard Chartered Bank’s ordinary current account and African Banking Corporation current account respectively as per the survey, which was complied by Research International on behalf of CBK using data for the period ending December 31, 2008.

However, it is unwise to fall for such single monthly charges that make certain banks appear to be cheaper than others because others still maintain charges for certain transactions despite posting the monthly levies.

Polycarp Ngoje, who is head of research at Tsavo Securities, says you need to look out for non- interest charge components that banks levy before you put pen to paper.

“Such charges are rarely regulated by CBK and most banks tend to have most of their hidden charges under them because it is like a blank cheque for them,” says Mr Ngoje.

Also, it is important that you check how much is needed as minimum balance in that bank account for it to operate. This is like money that you will never access if you still want to maintain the account.

This is important. For instance, while it will cost you Sh2,757 per month to operate Stanchart’s ordinary current account, there is no minimum balance needed to avoid attracting a penalty.
But you will need Sh300,000 and Sh30,000 as minimum balance to avoid attracting a penalty in NIC Bank’s Vintage and I&M’s Sapphire accounts respectively.

“Sometimes the penalties are punitive and may erode your savings fairly fast,” says Mr Mworia.

You also need to be fully informed on how much they charge you for every transaction you conduct through your ATM.

Also, next time you go cash your cheque, be sure you may be courting a pinch on your pocket. This is because most banks charge fees for every cheque that is processed in the account and it is important to know how much this is.

It is equally important to know how much they charge per chequebook, given that some banks charge per leaf of a chequebook. For example, it can be Sh2 per leaf coming to Sh200 for a 100-leaf chequebook.

Before you start demanding your statements, watch out for any statement charges since the service charge may guarantee you one free statement per month. This means any extra statement you request, you will foot its cost.

Equally critical is for you to define what services you need and which bank offers them and the number of branches they have. There is no need of paying for a fancy service that makes no difference to you.

In shopping for a bank, therefore, you need to look for a bank that will meet your specific needs. If you are in business, your unique needs will be different from a career person who just earns a salary every month.

If, for instance, you need somewhere to keep your money to meet your daily living expenses, it is advisable to go for a transaction account or a current account. This is because they allow easy access to your money and charges are par transaction such as withdrawal.

Chequebook

The primary difference between the two is that the current account offers a chequebook.

However, some banks offer “bundled” products, which have a fixed monthly fee that includes a number of transactions for the month. Depending on how much you use your account, this type of an account can be cost-effective.

Due to these unique needs, most banks have tried to come up with different products to cater for the unique needs across the market. Hence you will see products targeting salaried young professionals and small and others going for medium enterprises.

If you need money for the future, you could opt for a savings or deposit account. If you pay for most things in cash you should consider where you can access your cash and ATM network spread is critical to settling for a particular bank.

With the advent of alternative and faster channels of accessing banking services such as the fast spreading mobile phone money transfer services across the banking industry, your bargaining point should focus more on where they are offered both cheaply and efficiently than standing orders or other bank services.

Besides lower charges, other factors you need to consider include avenues to access the bank’s services (branches and ATMs), flexibility of its opening hours and the ease with which they accommodate your changing financial needs.

This is why mobile banking and the electronic transfer offered by mobile phone service providers such as Safaricom’s M-Pesa and Zain Kenya’s Zap are becoming popular.

No wonder the two service providers have attracted over six million money transfer clients in less than two years while banks have only attracted about five million account holders since independence.

But, Mr Ngoje says, you should go for accounts that advance your savings by not saddling your accounts with all manner of charges.

“The saving culture has not been entrenched among our people,” he notes.

He adds that, despite the extra costs, it is better to stick with banks that have come up with additional services that promote your interests such as saving clubs and SME clubs as well as financial literacy programmes.

May be, if Mr Ogwaro and other customers could access such information, they could then entrust their money with the banks for them to reach the country’s 10 million potential customers threshold.


PREDATOR BANKS USA

How Five Banks Post Your Deposits and Withdrawals: Do They Trap You Into Overdrafts?
By Flexo on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 in Banking


In his documentary film Overdrawn!, Karney Hatch mentions that banks often post your deposits and withdrawals to your bank account in such a way that they maximize the possibility of overdrafts. Even if you believe you have a large enough balance to cover your withdrawals thanks to recent deposits, the banks have a way of calculating debits and credits that can result in multiple overdrafts in one day.

Here is how this works, supposedly. This is the scenario: you know that you have an automatic electronic withdrawal that will be executed today, perhaps to pay your mortgage or cable bill. You realize that you may not have the money in your account so you run to the bank and make a cash deposit to cover the withdrawal. Or perhaps you are aware of the impending withdrawal the day before, so you execute a transfer from one account to another online. In your scenario, the final withdrawal and deposit are executed on the same day.

According to experience with many banks, no matter what time your withdrawals and deposits are processed on any one day, the bank will apply your withdrawals first, from largest to smallest, then apply your deposits. So if you have $100 in your account at the beginning of the day, and you have instructions to pay your mortgage of $1,500, your cable bill of $75, a cash withdrawal at an ATM during the day for $80, a debit card purchase at the grocery store for $10, and a scheduled ACH transfer for $2,000, the bank will process your mortgage first, dropping your account below zero and incurring your first overdraft fee.

The bank will then reduce your balance by the amount of the cash withdrawal. Even though you’re already below zero the bank will charge you a second overdraft fee. Next, the bank will process your cable bill, resulting in the third overdraft fee. Your debit card purchase will be posted next, incurring an average fee of $30 for your $10 purchase. You’ve now been charged $120 in overdraft fees alone.

Finally, the bank will apply your deposit, bringing your account balance positive again.

This technique has been observed, and banks have even admitted to this practice. Yesterday, Consumerism Commentary reader Steve claimed that this is not the policy at Wachovia, nor is it the policy at most banks. So I called Wachovia, Wells Fargo, Citibank, Commerce Bank and Chase to try to extract the official policies from the customer service representative or salesperson.

Here’s what I found:

Wells Fargo

Wells Fargo’s policy is to always post ATM withdrawals first, regardless of the time the transaction took place. After ATM withdrawals are posted, deposits and other credits are posted from highest to lowest amount, and finally checks and other debits are posted from highest to lowest. Interestingly, if your starting balance is $0 and you walk into the bank at 9:00 am to make a cash deposit of $100 and at 2:00 pm withdraw $40 from the ATM, according to this policy you could incur an overdraft fee.

Citibank

I don’t have complete faith in the answer I received from Citibank. The representative I talked to did not understand my questions at first and put me on hold for a long time, presumably to find someone who might know the answer, but returned with an answer that still did not match my questions. Eventually, she told me that cash deposits and ATM withdrawals are posted at the time of the deposit, but ACH and check deposits are posted first. Check payments are posted after all other deposits. It sounds like you’re in the clear with Citibank.

Chase

Chase will post your transactions to your account at the end of the day. The bank starts with deposits and ends with withdrawals, both from largest amount to smallest. This policy would avoid overdraft fees as long as at the end of the day you’ve deposited enough to cover your withdrawals.

Commerce Bank (TD Bank)

Like Chase, Commerce Bank (now TD Bank) will post your deposits before your withdrawals. The policy is slightly different. Rather than processing your checks paid from largest amount to smallest, they are posted in the order of the check number, low to high. Commerce Bank assumes you want check number 1001 to pay before check number 1002.

The customer service representative at Commerce brought up an interesting point. First, keep in mind that there is a holding period when you deposit a check. The funds you deposit may not be available on the same day, even if the amount of the check is included in the balance listed online. Additionally, cash deposits have “next day availability,” so even cash deposits won’t be posted to your account until the next business day. Furthermore, on Friday, they consider it to be Monday, The one-business-day rule then stipulates that cash deposits on Friday won’t be available in your account for use until Tuesday!

Wachovia

Like Steve mentioned, the customer service representative at Wachovia explained the policy quite clearly. Wachovia will post your credits first, from highest to lowest amount, and will then post your debits, also from highest to lowest.

According to each bank’s representatives, the respective policies have been in existence as long as they could remember. I would like to contact more banks, like Bank of America, Bank of New York, Capital One, and PNC Bank to determine their policy as well. If I do, I will update this article.

It’s interesting that each bank has its own method of posting items to customers’ accounts. I think this is a practice that should be standardized across financial institutions, and it should be done in such a way that it benefits the banking customer: all overnight credits (ACH deposits, Direct Deposits, checks coming off hold, late ATM deposits) first followed all overnight debits (ACH withdrawals, electronic checks) from lowest to highest amount at the start of the day, then all real-time credits (cash deposits, ATM deposits during business hours) followed by all real-time debits (ATM withdrawals, bank teller withdrawals, debit card purchases) from lowest to highest amount at the end of the day.

Having never worked in a bank, I’m not sure if this policy is feasible, but it would be fair to the customer and reasonable to the bank.

24 Responses to “How Five Banks Post Your Deposits and Withdrawals: Do They Trap You Into Overdrafts?”...article on predatory banking in the USA.

juggler314
October 28, 2008 at 9:50 am
I’ve found WaMu to be pretty good about this. Even if i go to the ATM and make a deposit late at night it will be counted as actual cash available that day. A few times I’ve found something amiss in my records and had to do this and never have I had an overdraft fee because of it.

The account I use is a Platinum account so this info may not apply to every type of account (I don’t pay fees for a lot of things that a “free” account would). I don’t pay anything extra for my Platinum level account since my mortgage is considered part of my balance for the minimum calculation (yay).

Reply to this comment
Kathi D
October 28, 2008 at 10:54 am
Here is one technique that wasn’t mentioned. I have had this happen on checking and credit card accounts. You have a recurring draft on your account to pay for a service or bill. The bank sometimes charges the fee at the beginning of the month and then again towards the end of the month. When called, the explanation is that the bank posts the fee when the service requests payment and that the bank has no control over that. In the meantime, your account is overdrawn. Is this practice legal?

Reply to this comment
Greg
October 28, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Maintain a cushion of $1,000 in your account. Should get fees waived and prevent overdrafts (which usually works out to be 10%+ roi). The cushion servers as your immediate backup cash.

Reply to this comment
Kevin @ The Money Hawk
October 28, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Of course they do this. The problem is that 99% of them do it. Banks, like everyone else, exist to make money. The only difference is that most companies make money legitimately while banks steal it from you with policies and behavior beyond your control.

The best way to combat this would be to leave these banks. However, this will never happen because the majority of society is too blind and ignorant to make a difference. One intelligent person leaves and five more sheep join.

I’ve given up on this issue. The only thing I’ve found worth my while on this issue is to make sure I never get close to overdrafting the account and make sure I behave myself, lest they take more of my money. Basically, I work around their policies so they never notice me. If they don’t notice me, they can’t take anything from me.

Reply to this comment
Rick
October 28, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Do Credit Unions do the same as banks? I haven’t really paid attention. I have noticed that even though I am paid on a Friday my credit union posts the money on Thursday evening and it is available to me.

Reply to this comment
Tessa
October 28, 2008 at 11:51 pm
I use to be a supervisor for Wells Fargo Bank and I think who ever you talked to didn’t know what they were talking about.
Here is how it really works at Wells Fargo:
There are two types of transactions, teller and ATM. If you make a cash deposit with a teller, the cash will be credited into your account as soon as the teller hands you the receipt. If you make a check deposit with a teller an immediate $100 dollars is credited to your account and the rest of the check will be credited the next business day. If you make a cash or check deposit with the ATM an immediate $100 dollars is credited to your account and the rest will be credited the next business day. The difference is because the teller can tell the system that it is cash deposit where the ATM can’t make that distinction and everything gets processed like a check deposit.
So, if you make a cash deposit with a teller it is in the account and you can walk right out the door and pull it out of the ATM with out incurring any type of fee.

Secondly, Wells Fargo takes any credits before debits. So if you make a check deposit and on the same day make a debit card purchase Wells Fargo will credit your account the deposit before they debit out for the purchase.

The only snag is that the end of a banking business day is 4:00pm. This means for a check deposit to be in your account in the morning it must be in the ATM or at the tell by 4pm. I’ve seen SO many situations where a customer will make a 5:00pm deposit and assume because the made it in before the bank closed the money will be in the account by the morning, it won’t!
So, if you make a check deposit after 4pm and then go pull it right out, you will get charged the overdraft fee because you made the deposit after the business day is over.

All the differences and time cut off do make it really hard on people and can be confusing at first so I agree with other posters that it’s a good idea to always have some kind of buffer just in case you miss a cut off or the bank places an extended hold on your check. I do hope that this cleared up any skepticism with Wells Fargo because while I worked there I always saw that the bank tried hard to be fair and not hit good customers with outrageous policy or fees!

Reply to this comment
James
October 29, 2008 at 12:53 am
@Tessa

I would actually like to challenge you on the credit before debit with Wells Fargo. I have banked with Wells Fargo for about 10 years now. When I switched auto insurance companies, the amount is auto drawn from my account on the 15th which is the same for my paycheck. Well for a while the amount of my auto insurance was more than i had available in my checking account and it would overdraft from my savings account. This really annoyed me because if i looked online it would be in this order:

Over Draft fee -$xx.xx
Over Draft from Savings: +$xxx.xx
Paycheck : +$xxxx.xx
Auto Insurance : -$xxx.xx

So, all of these transactions would show up on the 15th and clearly it was processing the debit before the credit. I had to call customer service and they refunded the fee each time this happened, but I had to move the money back to my savings account.

I also have multiple accounts at Chase and I can say that even if your account is showing negative, you can run to the ATM and deposit enough cash to cover the overage and you will be okay. These accounts are used for anything special, just to take advantage of account bonuses.

Reply to this comment
Steve
October 29, 2008 at 9:14 am
The whole problem boils down to this: when banks started extending their hours, they didn’t extend their processing and cutoff times.

Customers ASSUME that because they’re making a deposit on a calendar day that it’s effective that day. If they would actually read their disclosures or ask the teller or call up like you did, there wouldn’t be any problems.

From now on, tell yourself that banks still close at 3pm. If you need it there today, you need it there by 3.

Reply to this comment
Dan
October 29, 2008 at 12:20 pm
I was impressed with Presidential Bank’s handling of this.

Their interest-bearing checking account has a minimum balance of $1000. If you fall below that amount in a given month, you are assessed a $5 fee.

I checked my balance online one day when I knew I was cutting it close to the $1000 balance, and noticed that due to the order of transactions my balance had fallen slightly below $1000 before a deposit brought it back above.

I called Presidential, explained that because my end of the day balance would be above $1000 I didn’t want to be charged the fee, and they told me they would not charge me the fee.

Of course, it was only a $5 fee in my case, but I’d guess a similar phone call might produce the same result for a customer concerned about an overdraft rather than a balance limit.

Reply to this comment
Brandy
October 31, 2008 at 8:24 pm
I have had a bit of a different experience with WaMu. I have a Treasury direct deposit that hits on the first day of the month, or the previous day if the first is a weekend or holiday.

I have documented proof that they process my withdrawals BEFORE the direct deposit.

The good side? They only charge one overdraft fee per day!

Also, wouldn’t it be GREAT if the banks would re-set your overdraft fee after say, 5 years without an overdraft? THAT would be customer rewards!

Reply to this comment
Brandy
October 31, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Additionally, I had a very large check drawn on the US Treasury that I deposited through ATM. WaMu held the funds for several days “to make sure the check was good”!!!!

Umm, please to let me know if the Treasury is not good for a 6 digit check, mkay?

Reply to this comment
Jim
December 10, 2008 at 8:33 am
Don’t open an account with Colonial Bank in Alabama, they’ll really stick it to you with as many debits as possible before posting a deposit that actually came in before them on the same day!

If I could do without a bank I would, but they have monopolized stealing money from those who can afford it least!!

Reply to this comment
Mike
December 11, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I’ve got one for you that “Top’s” all of this..ACH Deposits..Regions Bank …Even with the questionable practice of what “99 percent of banks do”..in regards to the ATM and deposit credits..Regions Holds ACH deposits for 3-4 days before posting them!!!..I have gone round-n-round about it with them (which they deny!)..and caught them last night..Deposit showed up before 12:00 PM as “pending” with a projected balance..should have processed at 12:01AM and be available..Today it’s NOT EVEN THERE!..and they deny ever having it….I can’t believe my on-line checking report is more accurate then their banking computers..This is happening all over..They use Billions of dollars “Interest Free” every day and there isn’t one agency that will take responsibility to look into it..America is getting Ripped Off again on a unfathomable level!!..I suspect it is collusion between the Fed’s who handle ACH Transfers and the Banks and they sure don’t want ANYONE asking about it..

Reply to this comment
Cyndi
January 6, 2009 at 1:19 pm
For those of us who live paycheck to paycheck. Having a cushion in the bank account is not an option. We have our bank account at BB&T (Branch Banking and Trust Co.) Even if our bank account has a positive balance, BB&T posts all debits first. They post our paychecks last- overdrawing our account, every week! (Our employer does not offer direct deposit.) We can not keep ahead of the bank overdraft charges! We were deeply affected by the mortgage meltdown and are now kicked by the bank when down. We have pleaded with them to forgive some of the service charges, but to no avail. I would love to find a bank that would post credits first.

Reply to this comment
Greg
January 6, 2009 at 3:25 pm
I went for two years without a band account. Purchasing money orders from the grocery store was less than the banking fees. While maybe not the most desirable, it did save me money.

Reply to this comment
mike
January 10, 2009 at 1:19 pm
That’s not an option for me..I’m speaking directly to “Predatory” accounting procedures that would seem to me to be against the Federal Banking Laws!!..With the “On-line Banking” access that we all have now …you can monitor the “Dates” that Debits and credits are made and clear…..I have noticed that not only will Banks “Hold” the Debits at certain times of the month (hoping for a regular monthly payment debit) but will actually “Re-calculate” the day the debit clears up to a week or more after the transaction is complete…This allows for “Creative Bookkeeping” ..IE: $200.00 balance..in the next 3 days, 5 debits totaling $195.00 “Clear” the account..6 days later a $300.00 debit clears instantly (by some miracle) on the same day a $400.00 Deposit is made (either direct or ACH..with the ACH clearing at 12:00 that evening as ACH transactions do)..The Bank will re-calculate the previously completed transactions and pay the $400.00 debit first!!!..then bounce all the other debits (already cleared and change the clear date) and charge banking fee’s accordingly.and then figure the Deposit effectively “Ripping You Off”!!!...I’ve gone round and round with my bank about this…Without a 3-4 times daily printout of your transactions off your on-line banking site (showing what cleared when) ..the consumer has NO leg to stand on as the bank computer has been changed..(seems to be some kind of “Hunting” Software the Bank uses).Even with your printouts your looking at several hours of fighting with the Bank Mgr. who has a list of “Pat” excuses that rival a side show pitchman!..This doesn’t even take into account the aforementioned Deposit (ACH) that should be an immediate credit off a 2-3 day ACH “Memo Post”..and figured before the $400.00 Debit!...Banks are now claiming that ACH deposits are figured at 12:00 that banking day..while any debit made that day is figured first…This after they have just “Held” Debits for several days just to “Create” this situation…There is no way to Police this until someone gets a really good attorney to really take a look at this practice and do a “Class Action” Lawsuit representing consumers against the Banks and force the Federal Reserve to stop them from this illegal conduct!!..This is a Trillion dollar a year plus Rip-Off that no one has done anything about!!!
I challenge the members of this board and any Att’s out there to start a Web-Site to bring all these potential clients together and everyone to monitor and get printouts of their transactions several times a day to create the body of evidence needed to bring these criminals to there knees!!! The first thing to look at is a local store that you use often…Note that on certain times of the month the normal “Hold” on your money from a Debit Card purchase will clear that day…then later (when the power, rent, mortgage,etc.) when the bills come in there is a 3-5 day Hold on the transaction from the same store..allowing the Bank to figure the big debit first and creating yet another way of causing a multiple “Overdraft” on your account…This is all kind of tricky to grasp until you get good at reading your personal On-line account printouts..and watch the dates change on debits!!!...This is only possible with the use of “Hunting” seek and destroy software..very similar to a “Bot” virus..or “Phishing” program..It is the way of nature for the Banks to apply the technology that years of accomplished On-line Rip-off Artists have developed and used to steal from consumers..and once the existence of this “Mal-ware” has been documented and revealed to the public, there will be a flood of these lawsuits!!!...Watch Your Money!!.. Because The Banks Are!!!

Reply to this comment
Rick
January 10, 2009 at 1:45 pm
On two separate occasions our bank has called us and said that our checking account balance has gone negative. They said if we made a deposit that day they wouldn’t charge a fee. The amounts were small and an oversight on our part. We don’t maintain much on deposit with the bank so presumably they treat other customers similarly.

Reply to this comment
Sharon
January 10, 2009 at 4:02 pm
I bank with Southwest Airlines Credit Union. They are awesome. I don’t work for SWACU but because my immediate family member does, I am able to bank with them. When I have a check direct deposited, they always post it at Midnight sharp the day it is expected…if that day falls on a weekend, they post it Friday night at midnight and the funds are immediately available. They also post deposits immediately and then debits follow in the order in which they were received. Southwest Airlines Credit Union is the best bank I have ever dealt with. I would highly recommend them.

I have a friend that was recently affected by the mortgage melt down. Her mortgage is with Wells Fargo and she banks with BOA. Both are crooks and will steal you blind. I have recently been helping my friend with her budget due to mortgage issues and the fact that I handle the finances for the company that I work for. I found and have documentation to support both practices. My friend was behind on her mortgage, what I found was: Wells Fargo repeatedly posted her mortgage payments not in accordance to the “Terms” stiplated in her mortgage agreement. They were outright violating that agreement. As a result, they showed her 3 months past due and they began foreclosure proceedings. She tried to get a modification to her mortgage but after 3 months nothing happened and her home was scheduled to be sold in an auction in September. We contacted numerous attorneys which required outrageous retainers and she essentially could not afford. Wells Fargo continuously posted multiple mortgage payments any way they wanted even though the mortgage terms specifically specify how these funds are to be applied, Well Fargo disregarded those TERMS stipulated in the mortgage documents. It was not until we filed a complaint with the Comptroller of the Currency which oversees banks with NA in their name that anything started to happen. Within one week of her home being sold, Wells Fargo approved her for a loan modification. The only problem, in order to save her home, she had to agree to accept all the extra fees that Wells Fargo had added from legal fees to you name it. She was essentially forced to accept these terms.

I have filed numerous complaints with various officials, agencies, wrote Senators, Congressmen in our area, etc.

Since all of this happened, I have been helping my friend manage her money. She banks with BOA. I print out her banking activity 2-3 times a day. The practice that Bank of America participates in is similar to those discussed on this website. Just to give you an example, my friend stopped by on Wednesday, her roommate just paid her the rent money and she had CASH. She asked if I would be able to stop by her bank to make the deposit because she is working 7/10’s. On 1/8/09, I made her CASH deposit to her account. The receipt shows DEPOSIT 1/8/09 however, BOA shows 3-4 different scenario’s depending on what time of day you check….I printed all of this. The CASH deposit receipt shows 1/8/09 as the date of deposit, online they show “deposit made after cut off time” and pending. On 1/9/09, the deposit was still “pending”. I checked online 3-4 times and printed everything out on 1/09/09, the CASH deposit did not show up and was not posted to her account until sometime after 5:30am the morning of 1/10/09.

I think the American public should protest these practices to our elected officals. If we don’t, nothing will change and who is looking out for us and protects the consumer these days? If you don’t complain then nothing will ever change.

Reply to this comment
mike
January 10, 2009 at 10:56 pm
That’s exactly what I’m talking about!!!!..There is a “Mal-Ware” program that “most” Banks are using that searches for and “Tags” accounts that are vulnerable!!!..Most all the “Lowly Bank Mgr’s” are not aware of it and don’t understand what’s happening. They are give the “Pitch” to sell and their job depends on it!!!...As a Country we have to rise up and “Protest” and “SUE”...That’s the only way this will stop and keep it from getting worse!!!..I just had $600.00 in charges and fee’s reversed because I raised heck!..and I was right!!!..This is “SOP” for Banks now and will get worse!!..Rise up and Fight!!..We work to hard for our money to have it stolen by the people who charge us to watch it!!!..Read my previous posts and really try what I suggest…You will see what I am talking about!...It’s “Mal-Ware” being used against us by the same institutions that our Government is supposed to be supervising!!!...Where the Heck are the Lawyers when you need them???...Remember these days 2+2 +=10

Reply to this comment
Dan
January 28, 2009 at 2:27 pm
There has been a Class Action against Bank of America for this.

If you had a Bank of America account between 12/6/2000 and 12/31/2007 and had a check with overdraft fees, you are entitled to a $78 refund.

http://clossonsettlement.com/PDFs/ClaimForm.pdf

Reply to this comment
Mary
January 30, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Mike-You are so right and explained it perfectly!!! I am so mad!! This very thing happened to me this week, and now the extra days I worked last week are eaten up in fees thanks to PNC Bank’s predatory practice. I did check my balance online last week, as I do each day at least 1-3 times per day. Some things showed that they were cleared, then magically, voila!!! they rearranged the transactions. Transactions that were done over the weekend weren’t sent through until Wednesday, while others were sent through Tuesday that were done Monday. All electronic transactions. Furthermore, I deposited a check on Wed. as we don’t have direct deposit at our employer, and they bounced another transaction even though my account had funds because according to the bank, “The funds weren’t truely available” until the next day. I couldn’t deposit the funds “as cash” like usual, because, of course I was overdrawn. Kinda like a “catch 22” With whom do we speak or write to, state legislators or congressmen to get this practice changed?? I feel that the transactions should come out in chronological order.

Reply to this comment
mike
January 30, 2009 at 6:51 pm
I told you!!!!..all you have to do is keep printing this “Garbage” 2-3 times a day and keep all your records and we can build the biggest “Class Action Suit” this country has EVER!! seen…I’m talking about the “Blatantly Illegal” whole sale “Ripp-Off” of all times being done with “Collusion” between supposedly competing Banks!...(Trillions of Dollars) ..With something this “Wide Spread” you can’t tell me the “Bank Examiners” don’t know about it!!!..so that brings the ‘Suit” to the “Federal” level…That will get good Att’s involved!!!..but everyone has to “Print-Out” the pages to “Prove It”!!!..We need a Bumper Sticker or “T” shirts or something!!!...TV coverage would help…It will get “Rolling” on it’s own if just a few people start to “Push” and “Record” everything!..Just another “Tidbit” to ponder….Your “Deposit” of your paycheck gets a “Memo Post” as soon as the teller stamps it…That money is instantly available to the Bank for it’s own use..and they both report it and invest it instantly!!!...without paying you dividends for your “Loan” to them..(while you wait for it to clear)...Then if there is a problem..they charge you again for some one writing you a “Bad Check”...They gain and you lose..your responsible for any fee’s incurred and the only way you can collect those fee’s is to sue in Small Claims Court”...This wouldn’t bother me except for them getting to make money off me without paying “Interest”..and again “Shuffling” the Debits and Credits to cause more “Predatory Banking”...The Suit referred to (in previous post).. against BOA was Settled out of court so there was no conviction…There have been some very “serious” Suits about similar and “Overlapping” topics that have all gone in the customers favor and established some pretty “Harsh” penalties for these “Practices”...but no one has jumped up and done anything in the last 10-15 years of any consequence…a lot has changed (computers) and has allowed for this Larcenous behavior on the part of the “Fed. Banks”..Now we have to Police the Government ourselves as the Tax Paid employees of the US (That you and me and our Tax Dollars pay for)..Don’t even make an “Attempt” to enforce or follow existing Laws!!!..This could be a “Juicy Suit” ...Like I said ..”Where’s that hungry Lawyer?”...I know that my cut will be some ****** little pittance but what I’ll save in Bank fee’s, Time, Hassle, and Money will be just fine!!..This Bank Stuff is killing me!!!..every week!!!...I’m tired of making them give me my own money back!!!...$2,600.00 this year!!!...plus the phone calls, printer paper, time, BS, Gas, Time off work, ETC.I got a hold of the Fed. in charge of all the Bank Examiners..(nice guy)..He’s lost in an obscure office in Wash. and personally responded to me by phone at 6:30 at night!!!..from his car!! on the way home!!..has a secretary and that’s it!!...One guy!!..He’s so busy with all the “Bush Money” being given out to all the “Party Animals” that are claiming their share..that watching Banks is very low on his “Plate”!!!..It’s in our “Laps” whither we want it or not!!..On a personal level all you can do is what I suggested and they HAVE to give you your money back…(don’t jump intermediately..when you see it..wait for a week or so to get all the “Print-out’s” in order and things calm down on your account..Early complaints can cause you even more trouble as they realize you are watching..(Things get real strange then..2+2=10..every time..)..Anybody make “T” Shirts?...”Bust the Banks” or something…

Reply to this comment
ducanh
February 24, 2009 at 4:31 pm
I was buying 2 game cards from my country with my debit card. Those card have been cancel but PNC put my $12.85 in “Pending Withdrawals” for 3 days and I haven’t seen any side they give my money back. What should I do? I send PNC an e-mail to day but I think it won’t be answer or if they answer, they could say anythink they want. I think I need to withdrawal almost all of my money and transfer them to another bank that have better service.

Reply to this comment
Flexo
February 24, 2009 at 4:35 pm
ducanh: That’s a debit preauthorization that you see in your account, and the bank might keep them there for five days or more, but usually less. They’ll just disappear if the debit was canceled by the place you bought the game cards. If the purchase wasn’t canceled, the preauth will become a debit and if you want your money, you’ll have to get the game card seller to credit your refund.

hi, you can find all US bank locations, addresses, telephone numbers and more details here. Check out the below link

US Bank Locations