I have been listening to people discussing this on many occassions whenever we gather, the thing is before we got colonised all tribes in kenya or to be honest in africa used their own indeginous names, when missionaries arrived they changed the names and we were made to believe, you must be called peter, joseph or all this other names to be a christian, is this true? or do you think we were brain washed and the missionaries imposed their ideology on us. Really does it mean is you are called ngigi ngugi you won't fit to be a christian or you wont go to heaven, Did we have to loose our identity, i am thinking of loosing my names but i am not soo sure what to call myself, i wish we had retained or we couls revert to our traditions. I believe we can be ourselves and still mix well with the world, i am so sick and tired of us( mostly africans) always trying to look or conform to western ideology and ways. Thats why i admire china and most asian countries, its the opposite it the western trying to learn their language they are not bothered about english, spanish or french. I am a progress and i am not sayin people should not learn this languages but i feel it should not be at the expense of us(africa) loosing our identity.

I am interested especially in the kikuyu traditional naming, like we know a baby boy is named after the husbands parents, in this case how was the name given, like ngugi wa thiongo was thiongo his grand fathers name or was it ngugi. this bit confuses me . What about ladies how were they named..

i NEEED SOME HELP.

bkenyans
Naming is part of acculturation. The wazungu had to give African their names for two reasons.

1. Out of their laziness, they could not pronounce African names correctly

2. They wanted to brainwash Africans

With regards to (2) they had to tie naming to the bourgeoning Christian in order to succeed in their mission. They stressed that a key elemnt of baptisim involved taking a mzungu name. Eventually, baptisim as recommended in the Bible lost meaning and only the naming aspect was retained. Today, as any christian about baptism, and they will tell you their names, but not the whole philosophy behind baptism.

While I do not count myself a Christian, I can say from my CRE lessons, and my reading of the Bible that an English name has nothing to do with baptism. I am encouraged by the story of Oginga Odinga who adamantly refused to give Raila and Oburu English names. That is the spirit.

To reverse the trend, we need to fight this misconception that English names make you a Christian. I was given an English name before I learnt how to speak. I would have changed it long time ago, but whne I consider all the hassles involved, I shy away from it. However, I have sworn that if I get children, I will never give them English names. If they grow up and chose to have English names, it will be their own decision.

Sajini, are you an atheist?
Anyway i read somewhere that the so called 'English' names are not English after all.They are Hebrew.(with the exception of a few).
I am highly religious-and a xtian at that, having been brought up by staunch christians. However, i hold the same views with sajini.I will not give my kids 'English'(Hebrew) names.
In my family we all have two 'English names' but my Elder brother dropped his and adopted African(Kikuyu) Names.

Bkenya, i also have the same question.My name is Kariuki but Kíhia is the father of my grandfather.it kind of confuses me too

Kariuki,
I am not an atheist, neither am I a deist. I am simply a liminoid. Neither here nor there. I have been estranged from Christianity because I am frustrated by its narrow perspective, and the hipocrisy of its practitioners (not all).

quote:

Out of their laziness

quote:

They wanted to brainwash Africans

quote:

While I do not count myself a Christian

Sajini, Sajini,
you have a way with words, small words but when you use them they are so strong. what are you(or did you) studying? who taught you to talk like that?
its not bad.makes you look smart.you're smart.


well,
bado kenyan, here in Uganda,we translate the wazungu names and so you will find many people here without English names (but with christian names).
i dont think the Africans were forced by the whites to use their names,i think they thought it was cool and an easier way cuz African names can tend to be long and not nice sounding. Me,thats why would use English names.

sajini !sajini! let me admit i ave been ignorant of sm things and flankly i lk the way u put it as maria has said


when you say atheist,deist am abit confused yes i get the meaning bt will u mind explaining to me,you are starting to be my role model,
you are a liminoid i like that?

make sure wen u fly back you give me a date,i would like to know the inner of you.
(naming)keep the topic burning soo interesting

Maria na Wangu,
I get too nervous when someone flatters me. I am only a simple kikuyu who enjoye his githeri, mutura and mugithi.

Back to Maria,
It is not that Wazungu names are cool or nice sounding. Think of Russian, or Czech names, they are long and very difficult to pronounce, but Wazungus pronounce them with no difficulty. The percieved pronunciation problems are nothing but excuse for laziness born of negative attitude and contempt for African names.

You can also view name change within the discourse of cultural hegemony. Giving foreign names is an important step in acculturation and constructing a community of practice. When we teach African languages in these foreign lands, the first thing we do is giving our students African names. None has ever had a problem pronouncing these names. In fact, they love them very much.

It happened here too (where I come from) but what happened to the names.
It was more ruff in Africa though. Here the monks kindly knocked on the door and we knocked them down...

Around a thousand years ago the Papa/Pope (the guy nearest God) started sending saviours to where I come from. I think, I don't know, that the main idea of that was not to help us to find this God. No, probably they where fed up on the continent having visitors from the north stealing their things and women.
Munks where sent for some hundred years, pushing thier views and tring their best to rename people but when their gifts where finished they hanged them in the trees. Fresh ones kept comming though. Admire their patient minds.
Finally one of the several kings up here thought that the concept from Roma sounded like a good idea to subdue his people and make sure he could stay in power.
Quite quickly the whole of north Europe become christian.
For sure a much more humane philosophy that the beliefs we had. Even if our old beliefs where more "down-to-earth", just like your old beliefs.
So from the very start the christinanity was directly linked to politics Like relgion had something to do with roads, schools, powerplants etc... and names?!

Well, first of all, as been said already, the names introduced to you and to us, where not english.
A few examples. Matthew is english, original is Matteus. Andrew, english, original Andreas. John, Johannes, Mark, Markus/Marcus, Luke, Lukas. There are more, help me.
So, the names that where introduced to you where not christian original names. It was english versions of them. Some english verions quite ugly in my ears by the way.
If you look at the situation in the north of Europe today you will find a fifty fifty situation. Maybe more original nordic and developed versions of nordic then christian.
Weather your parents are saved or not people pick names they like or from your ancestors.
Old scandinavian names that are still used: Tor, Tyra, Siv, Alf, Freja etc etc
And because of the christian invasion: David, Maria, Andreas, Eva, Tobias, Anna, Johan, Johannes, Markus, Christian/Kristian, Kristofer etc.
And then a some names that are new and mixes of ancient and christian.
Somehow there is no conflict anyway. Thousand years down the line. Your still kind of fresh so to say.

If entitled to an opinion: try to keep your original names, like you usually do. If you want a christian name use it next to the Kikuyu name.
Maybe try to find the original christian name if you want one, why the english version, when it is time to get baptized.

Having a ancient nordic name does not make a north-man less christian and it should be the same with you.
God definitely does not care less for Kamau or Thor then for John Smith!
The hole idea of altering your names is like the muslims do. I use to know a guy in Mombasa called Robert something. Now he is Ali Mohammad or something...

Then we have a quite new phenomen.
What if you have one leg in both the "western world" and the african?
Like my daughter. Half Kikuyu and half Viking.
Then what?
As you wish, would be my answer. And two names was our choice. Then it will be up to my daughter to choose.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nini,

Nini,
It gets complicated every time, doesn't it?

Is that so? Me very complicaaate? Wowawiwa!

I think you misunderstood. I meant the debate on names go on geting more and more complicated

quote:

It is not that Wazungu names are cool or nice sounding. Think of Russian, or Czech names, they are long and very difficult to pronounce, but Wazungus pronounce them with no difficulty. The percieved pronunciation problems are nothing but excuse for laziness born of negative attitude and contempt for African names.

you could be right here.


yeah it does get complicated.

to answer the question on the post "should we use english names?" I am not english so no, I will not use an english name. I am Gikuyu so that is the name that describes me and that I will answer to.

bkenya, I will help in the best way I can with the naming question you asked. to my knowledge the first child is named after the husbands parents and the second child is named after the mother's parents. Meaning if a male child is born that child is named after the husband's father another male child is born it is named after the mother's father. Same goes for female children. After that the children are named in order of the husband's uncles and aunts and the same for the mother's uncles and aunts. The second son takes on the family name of the mother's family.

quote:

the first child is named after the husbands parents and the second child is named after the mother's parents. Meaning if a male child is born that child is named after the husband's father another male child is born it is named after the mother's father. Same goes for female children. After that the children are named in order of the husband's uncles and aunts and the same for the mother's uncles and aunts. The second son takes on the family name of the mother's family.

a question; how many of these people's names do you inherit? all the names? as in,is the kid given all the names of his grandfather?

By studying the principles of symbolism we can learn not to be unconsciously influenced by language, and in this way can escape a host of erroneous notions.

Haro ni ya muka uri ihii!