Ni-ndamugeithia Nyumba ya Mumbi.
Rwario rwitu rwari-ho ona mbere ya muthungu guuka. Rwario rwitu ni-rukuru ota mundu. Nuu woigire ati tutiri mugambo wa 'f', kana 's' kana 'v'?
Tuugaga tunyue 'shai' kana 'chai' kana 'cai'? Witaga thoguo 'baba' kana 'fafa' kana 'vava'?
Tuthiaga 'gushera' kana 'guchera' kana 'gucera'?
Ni-i mwene ndishiragia gi-gikuyu ni gikwendwo( a revised alphabets realistic with our diverse phonetics)---ungihota 'gutafuta' gashunji kau kahingire na braket no-eke uguo.

Ngwĩciria ndĩgereire gũtaũra kana ũguo uugĩte gũtabuta rĩ, Diverse no gĩuke ta "Ngũrani" no harĩ mũhũthĩrĩre no yũkire "ĩĩkũraine" kana "Ndiganu" nakĩo phonetics no gĩũke "Mĩgambo" na kĩngĩongererwo hanini "Mĩgambĩre" ũguo no tũgerie kuuga "mĩgambĩre Ngũrani" kana "mĩgambo ĩĩkũraine"

Ithe wa Cikũ na Ndũng’ũ,
Gĩkũyũ nĩkĩrĩ migambo ĩyo wauga , no nĩkũrĩ ũtiganu wa mĩtamũkire kũringana na kũrĩa mũndũ oimĩĩte kana akũrĩire.

Mũndũ wa Rware no auge Chai, nake wa Metumi oige sai, nake wa Kabete oige shai.

Hau woiga ha gũcokera mwandĩkĩre nĩgetha ũringane na ũtiganu wa kĩmũtamũkire ndĩna njiriri hanini. Harĩ mũthemere wa mĩtamũkire kana bonetĩki-rĩ, nĩ harĩ ũtiganu wa ng’ambi na mĩtamũkire (phone and phoneme) na ndemwa na ng’ambi (grapheme and phone)

Nii ndikuona harĩ na bata wa mwandĩkire ũgarũrĩrwo, Athomi metaga SH, S na CH rũruka rwa ng’ambi kana (allomorph). Tũngĩambĩrĩria gũcokera mwandĩkĩre kama mũtamũkire twahota kũgĩa na ng’ambi nyingĩ mũno ũndũ mũthomere kama mwarĩrie wa rũthiomi rwitũ ũngĩtũrehera thĩna.

Ũhoro wĩgiĩ baba, vava, fafa uumanite na ng’ambi ĩmwe yand!kagwo ta ũũ [ß]. Andũ matamũkaga ng’ambi ĩyo na njĩra ndiganu

quote:

Originally posted by Ithe wa aa-Ciku na Ndung'u:
Ni-ndamugeithia Nyumba ya Mumbi.
Rwario rwitu rwari-ho ona mbere ya muthungu guuka. Rwario rwitu ni-rukuru ota mundu. Nuu woigire ati tutiri mugambo wa 'f', kana 's' kana 'v'?
Tuugaga tunyue 'shai' kana 'chai' kana 'cai'? Witaga thoguo 'baba' kana 'fafa' kana 'vava'?
Tuthiaga 'gushera' kana 'guchera' kana 'gucera'?
Ni-i mwene ndishiragia gi-gikuyu ni gikwendwo( a revised alphabets realistic with our diverse phonetics)---ungihota 'gutafuta' gashunji kau kahingire na braket no-eke uguo.

I will reason from a purely layman perspective. The major difference between Kikuyu and English is in phonetics. In the Kikuyu language, there are very many words that are written the same way but depending on the intonations, can have very diverse meaning. On the other hand, very few English names have similar spelling but different meanings. What they have are similar sounding names that are written differently.

For example:

iria = milk (stress the last 'i')

iria = lake (no stressed phoneme)

iria = those things (stress the initial 'i')

Kuri andu maratwarithia ruthiomi rwa Gikuyu na mbere. Riri ni ikinya inene muno hari ruthiomi rwitu.

Nituhurirei Gatua wa Mbugua ruhi...


http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...id=11882&Itemid=5822

Big up for Mr Gatua. His PhD is something I'd like to lay my hands on.

There are very many pseudo-experts on the Kikuyu language that some professional work is quite welcome. Serious research/writings on the Kikuyu language were last done by the preceding generation and its high time we took our heritage seriously.

I loathe to see people murder the language of my people, and the worst thing is the murderers never learn. Like people who exclaim 'Ngai fafa'. What on earth is a 'fafa' in Kikuyu?

Wamax
may be English is not so different from Kikuyu when it comes to the use of intonation to change the meaning of the word. see what I got:

He was given a contract to contract the project.
The suspect did not suspect that he would be suspected.
When the console was stolen there was no one to console her.
The farm was used to produce produce.
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
We must polish the Polish furniture.
He could lead if he would get the lead out.
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
I did not object to the object.
There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
They were too close to the door to close it.
The buck does funny things when the does are present.
A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
After a number of injections my jaw got number.
Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?
Can a canner can a can?

Wamax,
I am not so much worried about the inconsistency between orthography and phonetics. It happen with all human languages. Although Kikuyu follow the orthography decided by some missionaries who had their own reasons for choosing the writing system in use, the people who write 'fafa' instead of 'baba' are more faithful to the conventional phonetic symbols acceptable by the International Phonetic Association. In addition, there are differnt pronunciations of the same word; e.g. vava, βaβa, and fafa. Existence of these dialectal differences demonstrate the richness of our language. None of these dialects are superior to the other.

Yeye,
I agree with you, though I must also point out that Kikuyu and indeed Bantu nominalization is very different from English. While prefixes and word final vowels distinguish verbs from noun, there are cases where intonation is all that is needed to distingusih word categories.

1. Tuira ngombe thaara
Thara indo ciaku
2. taara mwana waku
tara mathabu wega
3. njamba ya ita
ita maai macio
4. ng'ombe ina hia
hia guoko
while orthography seem to differe, we can argu that it is all in the intonation.

Sure Sajini, the orthography must since differ because each language has its derived orthography. However if we consider the phonemic orthography of English and Kikuyu, we see that Kikuyu is more phonemic than English. Apart from the use of Ba and Ga sounds, most of the other sounds are more or less phonemic. The Ga sound is a bit understandable because the English language hardly have a sound similar to the Kikuyu Ga sound.

quote:

Originally posted by sajini:
Wamax,
I am not so much worried about the inconsistency between orthography and phonetics. It happen with all human languages. Although Kikuyu follow the orthography decided by some missionaries who had their own reasons for choosing the writing system in use, the people who write 'fafa' instead of 'baba' are more faithful to the conventional phonetic symbols acceptable by the International Phonetic Association. In addition, there are differnt pronunciations of the same word; e.g. vava, βaβa, and fafa. Existence of these dialectal differences demonstrate the richness of our language. None of these dialects are superior to the other.

Yeye,
I agree with you, though I must also point out that Kikuyu and indeed Bantu nominalization is very different from English. While prefixes and word final vowels distinguish verbs from noun, there are cases where intonation is all that is needed to distingusih word categories.

1. Tuira ngombe thaara
Thara indo ciaku
2. taara mwana waku
tara mathabu wega
3. njamba ya ita
ita maai macio
4. ng'ombe ina hia
hia guoko
while orthography seem to differe, we can argu that it is all in the intonation.

I dont think its just semantics that the word 'father' is written baba in Kikuyu rather than 'fafa'. The phonetic association you mention deals with the English language In the same way you feel crawlies moving along your back when you hear a mzungu say Kenia, I fell crawlis when you write 'vava' or 'fafa.

Even in the English language, they avoid going the 'easier' way.

Why is antique not written antik?
pick not written pic?
pork not written pok?

quote:

Originally posted by yeye:
Sure Sajini, the orthography must since differ because each language has its derived orthography. However if we consider the phonemic orthography of English and Kikuyu, we see that Kikuyu is more phonemic than English. Apart from the use of Ba and Ga sounds, most of the other sounds are more or less phonemic. The Ga sound is a bit understandable because the English language hardly have a sound similar to the Kikuyu Ga sound.

It is precisely because of the musical nature of the Kikuyu language that the pioneer writters decided to do away with the following letters:
f
l
p
q
s
v
x
z.

They also added letters whose sound is unique to the Kikuyu language.

@sajini: please note that the Kikuyu letter system is not 'English' but 'Greek'

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wamax,

quote:

Originally posted by yeye:
Sure Sajini, the orthography must since differ because each language has its derived orthography. However if we consider the phonemic orthography of English and Kikuyu, we see that Kikuyu is more phonemic than English. Apart from the use of Ba and Ga sounds, most of the other sounds are more or less phonemic. The Ga sound is a bit understandable because the English language hardly have a sound similar to the Kikuyu Ga sound.

I agree that Gikuyu is more phonemic than English. But in addition to [g]which is pronuonced as a velar fricative, we have the grapheme [c]which is phonetically realized as [s]and sometimes [sh] or [ch] depending on the dialect. Graphemes [ũ] [o] and [ĩ] alsdo differ from from their IPA characters.

quote:

I dont think its just semantics that the word 'father' is written baba in Kikuyu rather than 'fafa'. The phonetic association you mention deals with the English language In the same way you feel crawlies moving along your back when you hear a mzungu say Kenia, I fell crawlis when you write 'vava' or 'fafa.

Even in the English language, they avoid going the 'easier' way.

Why is antique not written antik?
pick not written pic?
pork not written pok?

Wamax,
No, the Phonetic Association does not deal with English language only. Phonetic symbols are universal and not specific to any language. A langauge need not use all the phonetic symbols in existence

As for avoiding the easier way, I think that is the natural trend in all human languages. Abandon the useless non-transparent way and take the easier one. If you look at the Lords prayer in Old English, you will feel as though you are reading another language. English has taken the easier way. I would say that Webster was trying to go the easier way with English whee he formalized the American English writing system that distinguished the spelling between American and Bristish English. As for dialectal differences, just pay attention to American, British, New Zealand and Australia English? They are very different. Why should we be ashamed that Gikuyu has different ways of saying the same thing?

It is my belief that Kikuyu writing system will only become consistent when the Kikuyus themselves discuss and agree on orthographic conventions. While the current orthography has worked well, there are gaps that are yet to be addressed.

Fianlly, to answer your question on antique, pic and pork, I will not claim authority but here is part of the explanation.
antique...Borrowed from French, the original spelling was retained
pick....no explanation for now
pork cannot be pok because in American English, the [r] is pronounced. In old Englis, [r] was also pronounced.

We are in agreement in most of what you say. My beef is this: Why cant we let Kikuyu be Kikuyu? Why do we have to view it from an English point of view? The guys who wrote the whole bible left out those letters and the good word was well communicated.

Now that you cannot reconcile the sound 'f' being represented by 'b', its your own problem, not a language problem. If i fail in Kiswahili, why would they change the language so that its more Kikuyuish for my sake?

By the way, even in Kiswahili, they miss the following letters:
q
x

And if you think English is becoming easier, why not convert the word 'queue' to 'que' or 'kiu'

Wamax,
I have no problem with the Gikuyu orthography. All I am saying iss that it is not a big deal if the Mathira guy say 'chai', the Muranga 'shai' and the Kabete guy 'sai'. I do not begrudge those guys who write transcribe their speech manner photemically.

Interesting thing about those two letters. They only exist to distinguisth meaning from the relics of an old writing system.
phonetically, [q] and [x]is represented as [k]and [ks] or one of their allophones depending on the language in question. The absence of q and x in Swahili or Kikuyu is a good thing because it makes our langauges more transparent.